Meetings
So what is with the obsession that the American church has for meetings?
Meetings have become the life of the church. Take away the meetings, and it appears the church would collapse. Is this really what Jesus had in mind when he said, "Upon this rock I will build my church"? The interpretation of "rock" in that statement, with the present obsession for meetings would lead one to believe that what Jesus meant was: "Upon meetings I will build my church".
We all know how ludicrous that is. But isn't that how we build our churches, with meetings? Isn't that a primary measuring stick for faithfulness and maturity, as to how consistent one is in attending meetings?
What would happen if a church canceled its scheduled meetings for the summer months?
So what would the church do if there were no meetings like it presently has?
Meetings have become the life of the church. Take away the meetings, and it appears the church would collapse. Is this really what Jesus had in mind when he said, "Upon this rock I will build my church"? The interpretation of "rock" in that statement, with the present obsession for meetings would lead one to believe that what Jesus meant was: "Upon meetings I will build my church".
We all know how ludicrous that is. But isn't that how we build our churches, with meetings? Isn't that a primary measuring stick for faithfulness and maturity, as to how consistent one is in attending meetings?
What would happen if a church canceled its scheduled meetings for the summer months?
So what would the church do if there were no meetings like it presently has?
Carman and friends,
How long did it take to realize the truth about meetings you describe here and previous posts?
I don't think swinging a wrecking ball at Church meetings is appropriate or unapropriate depending on where the Christian gets their fellowship from.
This blog is a meeting. Is it appropriate to meet here? Can you remember Him with wine and bread here?
yes, it is the same if you have a healthy body and have made a commitment in your heart to attend certain meetings.
I would come at this from the angle of over organizing a living organism (us the Church) and thereby dissecting and killing it.
Lukewarm Christians is at the heart of this matter in my mind. A stern warning about that is appropriate but maybe it will take a tragedy to make a Christian hot enough for Christ.
Just bodily leaving a meeting that you were once committed to with your whole heart could appear to some as a divorce. Or your absence is caused by sin in your life. The pharisees love that one.
So as your heart and mind contemplate the living word of God and what was happening in 1Cor chapter 12, you will get a definition for meetings.
We certainly don't want to be confronted with a letter from Paul, a disciple in Christ asking us why we are back under the law and have fallen from grace. (slaves to meetings for instance)
Go for it brother Carman until you get your answer. In the meantime I suggest meeting with the sick, the prisoners and the naked. Jesus always shows up there in my experience.
Thanks for the spell checker you added.
Bye everyone,
Mike
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Hey, if most folks just meet 52 times a year (and keep the tithe coming in) they are in good standing. Perhaps we need to meet more! Not the "same ol' same ol,'" but at the mall, or the park, or walking the dog, or ---- well, you get the picture. Even for a series of Bible studies, but not the never-ending lectures (when done by religious leaders they are called "sermons"!). I know because I am guilty!
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Carm,
Meetings are part of the business model that the church has adopted. Business meetings are specific in nature and are called to organize thoughts and strategy. Meetings are not the family model that community provides. Americans have accepted the meeting concept because that is our interpretation of church life. This has sapped the life out of the normal christian life as proposed by foundational authors like Watchman Nee.
Our interpretation of salvation and the normal christian life are both skewed. If the churches stopped all their meetings there would no more man made substitutes for gathering together in His name. That would be interesting to watch. Out of all the millions of "attendees" in the USA, I wonder what the number would be that would seek real community.
Could be the beginning of something!
Let's close the doors and let it all happen!
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Davey, many closed doors have been invaded by mosques and restaurants.
You mentioning Watchman Nee and my favorite book of his has made your halo even brighter with me than before!!! You are officaily canonized (with a real Canon).
If man closes the doors, we see what happens. If God closes the doors we see what happens.
If man closes the doors man has quit. If God closes the doors man (Christians) submit and WATCH WHAT HAPPENS!
How many generations will it take to close the doors (by man)?
Sounds like to me our newly born family here has left the building and the system long ago. Some of us just couldn't stomach the system anymore and either went to the building and got sick or decided to meet at the mall and eat ice cream together. I like Key Lime Pie even more.
At the car body shop just today I was invited to attend a Church at a new fellowship here called OBX Nation.
Heeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllllppp me. Davey, you in a mall with a guitar would be a sight and experience I would crawl on broken glass to get to. Who's gonna lead the teaching today? We could pull a name out of the collection hat.
Wow, think of the possibilities over ice cream or good coffee. We gotta sing some. We just have to sing. If we don't the mall walls will cry out for joy. Great idea Ron.
Oh, there are no malls here. I could arrange a boat just off shore and the people on the beach could gather. Have to eat the ice cream fast in the summer.
Guess I'll be coming to the Burgh. Which mall Ron? Maybe the airport will give us permission like the Hare Krishnas.
Mike
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Hey Mike!
Watchman Nee's writings were so very foundational to me. The Normal Christian Church is a gem. Nee clarified so many things to me. For example: He indicated that the only dividing line for christians was their locality. The christians in Antioch for example were the church in Antioch. Man, have we complicated that.
Davey B
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Hi Dave I enjoy W. Nee's 'Normal Christian Church Life'! I wonder if Paul were around today in our time and was writing a letter, where would he send it to in your or my city?
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Jim,
He would have to do a google search I guess. Seriously, we have this local church concept all messed up. People are traveling 30+ miles to attend a meeting. I aways dreamed of a time when you and your neighbors would wake up on Sunday morning and gather together for fellowship. The stress of packin' up the kids and driving 30 miles would all be gone. Dream on Davey! Dream on!
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Dave, how true, our very society is independent and individualistic. Wouldn't be excellent if we decided to sell our homes and move into a neighborhood simply to be close to one another. I know of a group who now possess the whole subdivision!
In light of all the conversations of 'community' these days, I believe the Lord is bringing to our attention as a point of present Truth and recovery but not merely as a philosophy or theory , or countless discussions but as a practice of being a testimony of His Life among us as a community.
Ya never know though, Paul just might use google
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Meetings are definitely woven into the institutional cultural fabric of churchgoing everywhere-globally. However, when we read the N.T. account the believers gathered in homes as a family of believers and ate together as the Lord's table (full meal only- no Lord's snacks) As a weekly reunion they met on the Lord's day, but church for them was not "going to church" but being the church the Lord's body and for them and some of us it is a lifestyle not merely a weekly "meeting". The death process starts as soon as we make it a 'law of meetings'. Our gatherings are marked by LIFE not religious mandate. We are exhorted in Hebrews to not neglect the "Gathering together" ... We believe that entails a gathering throughout the week and is reflective of a daily Christ-injested lifestyle. When the Lord's day gathering does occure, it is merely an overflow of our daily gathering...spilling with life, testimony, teaching, gifts and so forth. I think that is what community is all about?
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I Just got this post from the 'Voices of the Martyr's Extreme Devotion' Post:
Just like shaving a tiger’s hair doesn’t do away with its stripes, so I am still a Christian. I still have meetings. At first there were only five meetings in my house; now there are more than a dozen.
MRS. VO THI MANH, A VIETNAMESE GRANDMOTHER
IMPRISONED FOR HER FAITH
Sounds like a lifestyle to me.
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Back in Charismatic years I recall a leader describing a meeting he attended likened to Acts 19: 32 “The assembly was in confusion: Some were shouting one thing, some another. Most of the people did not even know why they were there.” The biblical context was not a “church meeting”, but some of us can identify with the experience.
We have asked ourselves at meetings, “what am I doing here?” Why do we get together?
It is like the old Sunday School joke about the class being asked, “what climbs trees and gathers nuts?” A boy answered that he knew the answer was “Jesus”, but it sounded like a squirrel to him. Have we taken our Lord’s name in vain by making it a religious cliché, an “answer” that has no substance? For Evangelicals, Jesus is almost always associated with how one “does church”.
Assuming we have worked through any selfish introversion and really have a hunger for the LIFE Jim mentioned above (!?), ---and really wants to comply with the admonition in Hebrews in a non-legalistic way, what is wrong?
I know that I would sacrifice a lot to spend a week at the shore or in the mountains with you all on this blog. I also know that there are some Christians I would be willing to “give an offering” to be excused from meeting with altogether. Does this involve the issue of tribes, as mentioned a few months back, or is there something else at work here?
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Ron,
I'm not totally sure on this but maybe we all like the same kind of pizza. We are supposed to "meet and eat". Maybe we are kindred spirits when it comes to pizza. I'm looking for a root cause here and not the symptom. Am I off base on this?
Davey B
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I wanted to comment on Carm's excellent statement;"The interpretation of "rock" in that statement, with the present obsession for meetings would lead one to believe that what Jesus meant was: "Upon meetings I will build my church".
We all know how ludicrous that is.
So what is 'the rock' that Jesus builds his church which is His body upon? Is it not the initial revelation to us as individuals and the on going revelation of Himself into a corporate expression that will bear forth His testimony as a way of demonstrative Life in a locality?
Otherwise God would have used a cookie cutter or mold(law of externals) to reproduce the exact results He was looking for through history. That is what the institutional non-biblical church is; a form or a mold of godliness but denying the power of God. He forms us like he formed the rib from Adam to make his bride. The rib was incomplete until the formation of the woman (adams bride) was complete. The forming was done by God for Adam, so he could have someone to fully identify with. Jesus builds His church (an expression of His LIFE among us.) Is that not also by the revelation of Christ to us along with the way of the Cross through the hands of the holy Spirit forming us unto the image of Christ? Christ 'in' you or better translated Christ'among you'
I believe Watchman Nee brought this out in the book "The Glorious Church"; "Only that which proceeds out of Christ the last Adam, is formed to be His alone. Only the which proceeds out of Adam is Adam, so only that which proceeds out of the side of Christ is Christ's flesh of His flesh and bone of His bone.
It is out of that revelation of Him that 'what we behold we also become'. We go from glory to glory. No stringent meetings there, just a LIFE lived.
Oh, one more thing; Andrew Murray said concerning the beatitudes; "Christ was not presenting a set of laws to struggle to attain to. Rather He was a LIFE asking permission to envelope our life, He is an experience waiting to be experienced". Meetings in the traditional sense can be a real hindrance to spiritual growth but if the gathering is unto Him, they can bear forth tremendous fruit.
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Thanks Jim,
Somewhere on here awhile back I made the same comment about revelation. I'm in agreement with you.
Without the Spirit revealing to us we cannot even SEE the Kingdom.
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